Interview With Mike Higton
1. Rowan Williams' theology is said to be dense. Do you think that is
really the case?
He certainly doesn't believe in cutting corners for the sake of simplicity.
He's writing about the most complex questions in the world: the nature of God as
Trinity, the deepest currents of human life, the connections between
spirituality, morality and politics - and he thinks his first task is to be
faithful to the subject matter, however difficult it gets. Sometimes, he sees a
way to put some of this very simply; more often, his writings require a lot of
patience. You need to work at them - read them a couple of times and puzzle them
out.
2. Are there any pointers from his theological writing as to where his
leadership will take the Anglican Church?
I'd like to think that his impact would be seen most in a renewal of real,
intellectually serious spirituality in the church - the kind of deep and honest
spirituality rooted in the Gospel, nurtured by reading the Bible and the riches
of the Christian tradition, aware of its unavoidable political entanglements,
and passionately concerned with incarnate holiness. However, I guess that's
likely to be overshadowed by the necessity of dealing with threats to the unity
of the Anglican Communion. I think he has a lot to offer by way of clarifying
just what 'unity' means.
3. So what does Rowan Williams have to say about unity?
He writes a lot about how we live with and learn from our differences -
trying to get away from the idea that we're caught between inflexible uniformity
and colourless tolerance. We're called to unity, certainly - but unity in
Christ. That means we have to look for the ways in which those we differ from
are seeking to be faithful to Christ, and for what they might teach us about
Christ, rather than assuming we have Christ all sewn up ourselves. Unity only
breaks down when we can no longer recognise in others (or in ourselves!) a
serious attempt to follow Christ.
4. Given the current debate, many readers will be interested in the
chapter 'Sex and the Gospel'. Can Rowan Williams' views on this be summarised
easily?
I'm tempted simply to say, 'No! None of Williams' views can be summarised
easily!' One important thing, though, is to recognise that his commitment to
marriage and faithfulness, his condemnation of forms of sexual activity that
objectify and exploit, and his belief that faithful homosexual relationships
need not be condemned, all emerge from his attempt to think through the gospel
of God's saving love in Christ, and the holiness to which it calls us. I hope
that those who disagree with his views will nevertheless understand how he can
believe that they are implied by his Christian faith.
5. Rowan Williams has written some 2-3 million words in books, articles,
lectures, reviews and so on: what do you think are the themes that constantly
emerge in all of this?
God loves us with reckless abandon, not because we do anything to earn that
love, but simply because he does. Yet to accept that good news - to let it
percolate through every level of our understanding - is extraordinarily
challenging. It undermines all our attempts to secure and defend our position in
the world by our own efforts. It transforms the way we understand ourselves, the
way we understand other people, the way we understand our world, and the way we
understand God. That challenging good news - or 'difficult gospel' - is at the
heart of everything Williams has to say.
6. Rowan Williams has written for a more general reader - and of course
his fondness for The Simpsons is well known - but do you feel he can really
speak to and connect with a sometimes sceptical and indifferent secular
audience?
The media have managed to grasp that Rowan Williams is no intellectual
lightweight, no peddler of wishful thinking or pious nonsense. And that has
meant that he has had an amazingly open hearing, at least from most of the
broadsheet press. They know that he's worth taking seriously, even when they
disagree. Of course, I don't think anyone could claim that he has a natural
populist touch - that he is regularly going to amuse, attract and excite 'the
man on the street' (whoever that is) - but I'm not sure that's a role an
Archbishop can honestly play.
7. Rowan Williams co-operated in the writing in the book: what did that
involve: how did it come about?
The vast majority of my material comes from his published writings, but I did
write and ask if we could discuss the project. He was kind enough to make time
to talk to me, to answer various questions I had, to clarify some things I
didn't understand, to provide some background - and to suggest some ideas for
dealing with our three-month-old daughter's sleeping patterns… And when I had
a complete draft, I sent it to him to make sure I hadn't made any huge blunders.
He's been very supportive, but the book is definitely my own interpretation of
his theology.
8. There is reference in the book to Rowan Williams 'crossing of
boundaries. What do you mean by that?
Whenever you think you're reading about something distant and controllable -
an abstract philosophical claim, say, or some historical theological debate -
the ground can suddenly shift, and you find yourself confronting an
uncomfortable insight into your capacity to deceive yourself, or into the
connections between your domestic actions and world poverty or child abuse. Or
you think you are safely reading about a question of spirituality, exploring
deeply familiar territory, only to find that your attitudes to global economics
are being brought into the discussion. He's constantly crossing these kinds of
boundaries; it's unsettling, but a powerful mix.
9. In the book you make reference to the 1984 article 'On not quite
agreeing with Don Cupitt': what does that article (and title) tell you about
Rowan Williams?
Rowan Williams disagrees quite sharply with Cupitt, but he doesn't simply
measure Cupitt against a pre-defined standard and reject him. He strains to hear
what God might be saying to him through Cupitt's work, what call to repentance
it might contain - and only when he's done that to the best of his ability does
he allow himself to identify the point beyond which he can't follow him. And
that, I think, is characteristic of Rowan Williams: that patient, self-critical
listening; it gives all the more weight to what he goes on to say.
10. Tell us about your own career. Where did your interest in Rowan
Williams come from?
I'm a theology lecturer in the University of Exeter. Most of my time, I work
in the Department of Lifelong Learning - arranging the theology evening classes
and distance learning courses. I've been here about five years, teaching all
sorts of things: modern theology, the history of Christian doctrine, the history
of devotion to Jesus. I was introduced to Rowan Williams writings ten years ago,
by my PhD supervisor in Cambridge, David Ford, and have kept on reading them
since - though as soon as I started work for this book I realised I had barely
scratched the surface!
11. And lastly, after poring over a good many of these millions of words,
has anything in particular struck a chord with you? and why?
It would have to be various things Rowan Williams said about babies. In one
sermon, for instance, he talks about Jesus crying as a baby - and what it does
to our understanding of the Incarnation to believe that Jesus was God even then.
Elsewhere he writes about babies teaching you just how little you can control
another person - and relates that to a discussion of the nature of love. Given
that some of the work for the book was done with our very young baby daughter
Bridget sleeping on my lap, these passages definitely struck a chord with me.